A report by the Assistant Director (Localities) is attached.
Minutes:
The Head of Commercial and Licensing read the report, the contents of which were agreed by the Applicant. The Chair, Councillor Jones, asked if the premises had previously been a pet shop and it was reported that it had never been licensed for a pet shop.
The Applicant was then given the opportunity to address the Panel and the following issues were reported:
· This application was not for breeding dogs and therefore the property should not be referred to as a ‘puppy farm’.
· Although incidents had occurred in the past with the Applicant’s Father and Brother, the Applicant was applying for a pet shop licence independently.
· The Applicant and a full time member of staff would be with the puppies up to 18 hours a day.
· The exercise area was suitable for puppies up to 12 weeks of age, at which time the Applicant would have the dogs inoculated and they would be naturally exercised and walked with a collar.
· All kennel sizes will be 6 Sq m, larger than the specified size in the Model Conditions for Pet Vending Licensing, 2013.
· All kennels will be fitted with heat lamps which will be set between 18 – 20 degrees, with thermostats on all walls to ensure the temperature does not drop below the recommended temperature of 12 degrees at the lowest.
· All windows have been fitted with double glazing with enough natural light for the puppies and with fire lights.
· There are enough windows providing adequate ventilation for the puppies.
· The kennels will be cleaned more than 4 times a day, which is the recommended number.
· Food and drink will be independently bought from BETA who would also provide free packs with advice on keeping puppies.
· No puppy will be sold under the age of 8 weeks.
· All areas have been fitted with plastic and are easily disinfected, with a special ‘floor tech’ flooring.
· An independent fire plan has been carried out with foam and water extinguishers fitted.
· Although the licence is requesting to hold 30 – 40 puppies, the likelihood is that there would be no more than 20 at any time.
· A purchase register will be kept, including date puppies were bought and sold etc.
· The dogs will be played with, fed, watered at regular intervals which will exceed the recommendations in the Pet Vending Licensing Conditions.
· If the licence is granted, the City and Guilds qualification will be taken and completed.
· If the Panel see fit, conditions to the licence could be added and inspections carried out as necessary.
· Puppies will be separated for the first 7 days, which would normally be the time scale for illness to become apparent.
· £6,122 to date has been spent on improving the building to the standard required.
· An isolation unit has been built for sick animals, which has been independently verified by 2 separate vets.
· Food will be stored in a large black food container, which is easily cleaned and hygienic.
· Puppy waste will be disposed off through Rawtenstall pet crematorium at a cost of £6 per bag with receipts kept.
· Transportation to the premises, which has been agreed as adequate by DEFRA, will be used.
· A key holder to the premises will always be available.
· Soft material such as sawdust and hay will be used and play things constantly available.
· This will be the Applicant’s full time employment
· That the Applicant owns a share in the premises
· That the Applicants Father would have no involvement in the business and his Brother does not visit
· There would be no breeding taking place.
Various questions were asked by Officers of the Council and Members of the Licensing and Safety Panel, including:
· Where will the puppies be sourced?
The Applicant stated from farms, and that they will be brought to the premises with traceable documentation.
· Has the Applicant any previous experience of keeping dogs?
The Applicant explained that he had been brought up on a farm with dogs throughout childhood, including dogs with a litter of pups.
· What will the Applicant do with the dogs once they are on the premises?
The Applicant stated that they will be advertised for sale as is the same way as in a pet shop.
· What is the business plan, as the Applicant will have to pay the member of staff. How many dogs would need to be sold to be beneficial?
The Applicant explained that would depend on the breed of dog and the cost of the purchase of the puppy in the first instance.
· Will this be the main source of income?
The Applicant explained it would be one of them but there were other ventures also and that he wanted to prove he could keep the animals to a good standard.
· Is 8 weeks very young for the pups to leave their Mother?
The Applicant explained that a puppy can be weaned after 6 weeks and 8 weeks is the youngest they can leave their Mother. The Applicant stated he would not buy any puppies younger than 7 weeks.
· Where can the City and Guilds qualification be taken?
The Applicant stated that a number of places including Preston and Southport run the course but this cannot be commenced until a licence has been granted.
· Was the Applicant living at the premises when his relatives were prosecuted?
The Applicant stated he was living at the premises but was not involved with the breeding of dogs in any way.
· How would the time be split between the Applicant and the full time member of staff in order to be with the puppies 18 hours a day?
He stated it would be 2 nine hour shifts with a gap during the night from the hours of 11 pm – 5 am.
· Was this realistic 7 days a week?
The Applicant stated that he was brought up on a farm and it is normal to work 7 days a week, however it may be that 2 members of staff would need to be employed.
· Could this be classed more of a hobby if not a money making venture?
The Applicant replied that it was his love for animals and could possibly be considered as such.
· What breed of dog would be bought and sold?
The Applicant explained it would be mainly Border Collies with some Jack Russell’s and possibly Labradors as these are the dogs the Applicant had previous experience with.
· 10 – 20 puppies at once are not that many.
The Applicant stated that it would probably be 2 or 3 litters at a time with each having 6 – 7 puppies, but that some weeks he has none.
· Although the Applicant had expressed independence from the relatives who had been convicted, it was a very controversial issue and could be seen, in the eyes of the public, as connected.
The Applicant explained that the convictions were against his relatives not the address of the premises.
· To expect a full time member of staff to work 9 hours a day for 7 days was a lot to request. What sort of wage would he pay?
The Applicant stated it may be minimum wage but that it was possible to get apprentices through the City and Guilds course which was something he would consider.
· How long will the dogs be kept when purchased?
The applicant explained that would depend on the demand.
· How much would the puppies be sold for and how quickly would they sell?
The Applicant explained that would depend on the dog and the breed. It could be he may buy them for £50 to £100 each and depending on the markings and breed could get £250 each.
· How would the applicant vet the potential buyers and what after care advice would be offered?
The applicant stated that in relation to the after care, BETA would provide packs or information can be obtained from local vets or on the internet. The buyer would leave with as much information as possible. In relation to vetting the buyer, that was more difficult to assess but if there were any doubts, the Applicant would refuse to sell the puppy.
· The timing of this application was not really long after the relatives were convicted.
The Applicant stated that it didn’t matter when the licence was applied for as there would still be the same public interest.
· Would the applicant consider any other breeds?
The Applicant stated no dogs such as ‘Toy’ dogs or a breed that could be construed as dangerous would be brought onto the premises.
· Who actually owns the premises?
The Applicant stated his father owns 4/5ths, with the Applicant owning 1/5th.
· Do the Applicant and his father live in the same premises?
Yes.
· The Applicant’s Father’s ban under section 34 (2) of the Animal Welfare Act 2006, disqualifies him from owning dogs, keeping dogs, participating in the keeping of dogs and being a party to an arrangement under which they are entitled to control or influence the way in which dogs are kept. How will the Applicant satisfy this ban when they live on the same premises?
The Applicant explained that it had been clarified with Court and the Police that if his Father is not in the company of the puppies or left alone with them it won’t be an issue.
· When was the work amounting to over £6,000 carried out on the premises?
The Applicant replied around October 2013, following the visit from the RSPCA.
· The premises that the Applicant shares with his Father are where the incidents took place which has lead to the ban imposed on his Father, so how can the Applicant state it is not the address that comes into question when animals were kept bred and sold at these premises?
The Applicant reiterated that he would not be breeding dogs but buying and selling them from these premises. He could not stop his Father from walking around the premises but clarified that he would not be involved in the pet shop licence which was being applied for.
Delegated decision:
That although the Panel accepted the Applicant was independent from his Father and Brother, and was not involved in the prosecutions and is not subject to the disqualification, the application for a pet shop licence would be at the same premises that were the subject of prosecutions for serious welfare concerns. The Applicant’s Father still resides at this address and owns 4/5ths of the property and there is no evidence provided that can prove he will not become actively involved with the business and would not breach the conditions of the ban, namely:
· Owning dogs
· Keeping dogs
· Participating in the keeping of dogs and being a party to an arrangement under which they are entitled to control or influence the way in which dogs are kept
Therefore, the Licensing and Safety Panel members agreed, unanimously, to refuse the application for a pet shop licence.
The applicant was informed of their right to appeal to the Magistrates’ Court within 21 days.