Questions are invited from members of the public present at the meeting on any matters for which this Panel is responsible.
Approximately 30 minutes will be set aside for Public Question Time if required.
Minutes:
The Chair explained to the meeting two public questions had been submitted in writing prior to the meeting from the same person.
Mr Khalid Hussain representing the Bury Hackney Association as Chair asked questions regarding the following issues:-
1. The facilities provided by Bury Council in relation to MOT testing and
other matters together with licensing department policies and rules at present are different compared to those before 1996, when there were no members of the trade of a minority. An explanation for the reason for the differences was requested.
The Head of Public Protection, Ben Thomson responded that the Council has recently undertaken a tender exercise in relation to a second testing station, this is currently being evaluated. Once the evaluation has been completed consideration will be given to awarding of the contract. As you are aware the Council policy for the testing of Hackney Carriage and Private hire vehicles is that each vehicle is tested twice a year. Due to the common minimum licensing standards Stage 2 (vehicles) that was considered on the 11th November 2021 by Licensing and Safety Committee and the 24th November 2021 at full Council, members implemented new standards which removed the five fault rule for Hackney Carriages and the exceptional condition criteria for Private Hire vehicles.
The Question that you raise in relation to limit the number of Hackney Carriage Plates, Bury Council removed the limit in 1996 to allow market forces to dictate the numbers required. Bury Council has not as far as I am aware had any limit on private hire vehicles.
The Licensing Service currently reviewing the fees methodology with all of the other 9 Greater Manchester Authorities and will use this in the future to calculate fees. Vehicle Licences can be applied for up to 8 weeks in advance, but unfortunately vehicle proprietors do not apply in advance and as you will no doubt appreciate this can cause issued with appointments for those drivers who have not taken advantage of applying early to renew their vehicle licence.
Due to the Covid Pandemic, the licensing service had to act quickly to enable the trade to submit applications for vehicles/operators and drivers, therefore the trade can make online applications whenever they are able to and upload documentation that is required for consideration by the Council. One of the Council’s priorities is to embrace digitalisation of services, therefore the online service supports this priority.
Over the years the policies and procedures have been reviewed and implemented, but what we need to remember is that the policies and procedures of the Council are put in place to protect both the licensed drivers and passengers travelling in licensed Hackney Carriage and Private Hire vehicles in Bury.
2. Issues regarding Bradley Fold MOT station and problems encountered with staff behaviour that have been the subject of complaints made and a signed petition, but no action has been taken. In addition, concerns about following VOSA guideline on emissions and the failure to provide computer print outs for emission results.
The Head of Public Protection noted that Mr Hussain had previously asked these questions directly to the manager at Bradley Fold and had already received a response.
He went on to advise that the DVSA guidelines state the following in relation to Hackney Carriages and Private Hire Vehicles:-
Taxis and private hire vehicles that are licensed by certain Authorities do not need to have an MOT certificate. This applies only where the Authorities are certified by the Secretary of State as empowered to issue their own exemption certificates. Exemption certificates cannot be issued until the relevant vehicle has been tested by or on behalf of the Authority to standards that at least equal those for MOT tests. When a taxi or private hire vehicle ceases to be licensed, its owner must obtain a normal MOT certificate; the vehicle must not continue to be use on the strength of an exemption certificate, even if not yet expired.
Such Authorities may, if they see fit, impose test methods, items or standards that exceed the MOT requirements for these vehicles. DVSA has no involvement in setting these higher standards so any appeal against them has to be dealt with by the Authority, not DVSA.
The Head of Public Protection went on to the question raised in relation to Bradley Fold and advised that the Council have authorised the garage to undertake the testing of Hackney carriage and private hire vehicles, but that as he will be aware, the Council have recently conducted a tender process which is currently being evaluated. In respect of the emission issue, the DVSA guidance is being adhered to in accordance to 8.2.2.2 of the DVSA MOT guidance as to reasons for failure, which are as follows:
When the vehicle presented for compliance test and it fails the emission criteria, a copy of the emissions is now being given to the driver.
I can confirm that any complaint received from the trade is investigated and a response sent to the complainant.
Members of the public were in attendance at the meeting and submitted the following verbal questions:-
Mr Muhammad Sajjad Warraich from the Private Hire Drivers Association in Bury had a number of questions and explained that he was still not happy with the Licensing Department and the situation regarding booking a vehicle test when there is no choice as to the date or timeslot for the appointment. He also had concerns with the test centre finding more faults after repairs had been fixed.
The Chair reported that the Council was committed to a second testing station and the Head of Public Protection reported that the online application and the process for booking system is being looked at with a view to providing online booking at a future date. In relation to the issue of testing, he advised that there is manual to follow for inspectors, they had regular training and quality control checks were undertaken. Mr Warriach commented that there was an instance where the tester could not read the plates and mileage on a vehicle. The Chair added if you come across anything of concern in relation to vehicle testing then please inform the Licensing Department with full details so investigations could take place.
Mr Sharif then asked a question regarding common minimum licensing standards, which he felt were targeted towards the taxi trade and he queried why pubs, clubs and other licensed premises were not subject to similar requirements. He asked whether the standards could be reconsidered.
The Head of Public Protection advised that the minimum licensing standards only apply to licensed vehicles (hackneys carriage vehicles and private hire vehicles) and he reported that the work undertaken on these standards was aimed at ensuring consistency and to produce higher standards across all the Greater Manchester authorities and also that engagement had been conducted with the trade.
The Chair, having obtained advice from the Council Solicitor, stated that the licensing legislation and regimes differ for pubs and clubs and so therefore there is a different approach.
The Assistant Director of Operations Strategy reported that information would be released to the media and the taxi trade in relation to the clean air zone in the next few days. There was new evidence as to issues with the supply chain for vehicles and questions were being asked as to whether the financial support package from central Government was sufficient and for a review to take place which may provide greater financial support and a request is to be made for the clean air funding window for vehicles to be paused.
Mr Amir Abdin from the Private Hire Drivers Association commented on the issues of safety of drivers and stated that vehicles are targeted due to excessive signage. He stated that taxis from Burnley and Rochdale hardly have any signs and called for a consideration of a reduction.
The Chair reported that the common minimum standards would reduce the number of signs although the final decision on this had been deferred for 2 years. She advised that the Council, GMP and the trade would all work together to improve driver safety and it was stressed that there was a need to report any incidents to the police no matter how big or small. The Head of Public Protection added he would commit to Council officers attending trade meetings in relation to this matter.
Mr Sharif further commented on this matter and noted there may be a shortage of drivers. The Chair advised that she hoped she had already provided reassurance that this would be looked at and as being taken seriously.